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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.11 11:31:00 - [1] Originally by: Susan Kennedy EFFECTS: 1) Activating this module deflects 99.5% of all attempts to tackle it in low sec by any ship - leaving the pilot free to warp around at will Erm. Maybe 99.5% off all targeted tackling attempts and sometimes allow to fly out of bubble. Quote: SKILL PREQS Some lv3 navigation skills Electronics V Erm. Maybe Navigation lvl 4 Afterburner lvl 4 Microwarpdrive lvl 1 Electronics lvl 5 Cloaking lvl 3 (If factional Caldari Navy then lvl 1 is enough) Quote: COST 2 million isk After Nanonerf all MWDs give same boost to speed so even 1 million ISK Quote: Now the above module would NEVER have got past balancing. Indeed it wouldnt even have been brought up by any Dev - even as a joke. Any attempts to introduce it would have been met with massive outcry Yet because the cloak mwd trick came about as an unintentional side effect of two modules, its all ok???? Of course not - So why are people attempting to defend it - And why is it still in the game? Exploiters always don't want exploit to be fixed. And even if it's not exploit it's still gives a big advantage. But if MWD and AB turns off as soon as cloaking activated (like if ship is srambled by scrambler) then it will not give such advantage. Because the main reason of such possibility is that U can reach higher speed while cloaked, and if MWD instantly turns off without making even single cycle then it will not be possible to warp out safely if their is somebody nearby.. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.13 15:11:00 - [2] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's not an exploit to train and buy stuff to survive the odds, nor (like the exploits) it's readily available to everyone willing to do it super-early after character creation. Else, training for super-high resistances should be considered an exploit as well. Just buying a blockade runner would be an exploit as well. This reminds me when in WoW they called rogues exploiters because they attacked from stealth and "stunlocked". It was a **** annoying game mechanic but it was legit. It's not exploit to use MWD. It's not an exploit to use a Cloak. But if u Align to next gate press MWD+Cloak and then press MWD again (to turn off it after decloak) after about 7-9 seconds decloak and press warp u will warp almost instantly even if u are on BS. It would be impossible if MWD will not work under cloak even single cycle. It takes less then week with 100% learning bonus to learn to use MWD and Tech 2 Cloak... (with Salvaging it's not really hard to earn money to buy them) Higher resistance don't give u really big advantage. If gang have enough damager resistance will not save u. And cloak+MWD trick will save u almost always against tacklers. Buying Blockade Runner isn't exploit because Blockade Runner is designed to go through blockades but they are not designed for fighting, but BS is not designed for blockade running, frigates maybe, some tech2 cruisers maybe but not BS at all... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.13 22:50:00 - [3] Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/04/2009 22:52:05 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: It takes less then week with 100% learning bonus to learn to use MWD and Tech 2 Cloak... (with Salvaging it's not really hard to earn money to buy them) And then you got a character able to escape in a frigate, the ships that don't need MWD nor cloak. Now, how long does it take for get MWD and Cloak II in a really played character (not one in your fantasy) that wants to use it for a BC or BS? A bit longer than a week. Ok... BC with all that is still less then a month. Not a big deal.. Quote: Quote: Higher resistance don't give u really big advantage. If gang have enough damager resistance will not save u. And cloak+MWD trick will save u almost always against tacklers. Actually high resistances give you an huge advantage, because it protects against multiple enemies focusing at you, without sacrificing anything. MWD "trick" requires you to use 1 high slot, plus if the gang use smart bombs, corpses or containers (or drones) they'll reveal you. There's multiple counters, like in everything in EvE. Containers and drones are hard to use for decloaking, and not so often help... And bigger DPS is that much big problem Quote: Quote: Buying Blockade Runner isn't exploit because Blockade Runner is designed to go through blockades but they are not designed for fighting, but BS is not designed for blockade running, frigates maybe, some tech2 cruisers maybe but not BS at all... If you read this thread there were people complaining for Blockade runners very existance (as "cheat ship"). Moreover, since to be "real EvE" there has to be a counter for everything, it has to be possible for corporation X to bypass corporation Y gate camps. With a proper gate camp all you get is corporation's X ships decimation, if some bigger ships slip thru (not all will manage to) it only makes up for a nicer fight aftwerwards, which is all PvP is about. I understand that. But what is a good counter against cloak? U know i'm one of that people who sometimes complain that cloak isn't balanced at all... Drones and containers is nothing not really good counter u can put them just everywhere, and putting them isn't easy at all... gathering a fleet of 50 people is easier... Cloak is not balanced in gatecamps, and not balanced with scanners... IMHO... And going around agility with MWD+Cloak negates all what this topic is about... (I think this topic is about nerfing agility for easier scrambling) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 11:12:00 - [4] Originally by: maralt The ALIGN/MWD/CLOAK/UNCLOAK/WARP manouver is a effect that can only be produced through the application of 2 modules, perfect timing and piloting skill and as such is not subject to the definition of a "exploit". Your Point? 2 modules please many BS like Armageddon, Dominix, Megathron, Scorpion, Raven, Tempest have a free high-slot, scan resolution is not really good penalty from having cloak on a ship, MWD is really useful in PvP even on BS. perfect timing isn't needed at all their 6-8 seconds and with wormies going around MWD it's even easier timing. Piloting skill? Do u mean Evasive Maneuvering and Spaceship Command? Not a big problem after some training piloting skill isn't problem at all. It's not so hard. The only problem that could appear is connection problem or lags, but we don't talk about such problems and hope that one day their will be no lags in EVE. Quote: It can also only be produced in a setting that does not have disruption bubbles of some description up. And what about lowsecs? Or u think lowsecs doesn't need balancing? And decloaking even in bubbles isn't that easy. Once my friend succeded to go away from taklers in Orca without being decloaked... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 11:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Deva Blackfire If you really want you can MWD-cloak-warp (or just MWD-warp) titans... Works quite well even after nano nerf. LOL no need for CapShips. They don't jump through gates. Decloaking on cyno is easier (5 km radius instead of 12-30 km) I tried this trick with Orca and not satisfied I should say... But 100MN MWD is not designed for ships larger then BS. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 13:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Trimutius III LOL no need for CapShips. They don't jump through gates. Decloaking on cyno is easier (5 km radius instead of 12-30 km) Ever heard about them titans? Warping to spot above/below gate, pushing button, killing people and warping out before you can get on them? Its not fairy tale tho, they do exist. As i understand it cloak will only slowdown warp for titans because speedbonus from 100MN MWDs isn't enough for such a heavy ship... As i see it titan just align while cloaked and then decloak-MWD and this is totally another move and based on another mechanics... While Align-MWD-Cloak-Decloak-warp allows u to warp almost after decloak... Cloak-Align-Decloak-MWD-Warp just allow u too reach warp speed faster on a bigger ships... It's based on that cap ships reaches warpspeed in something like 30-40 seconds or even more and 1-2 cycles of MWD allows to warp faster... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 13:36:00 - [7] Originally by: maralt MEH stop whining, so a few ships use modules timing and piloting to get through your low sec gate camps, only noobs and fools jump into those camps anyway so even if the ability is removed ppl will just go around. Take a chill pill see the manouver as a skill that a pilot can learn and easily screw up quite easily if he gets his timing wrong and understand that these ppl will not jump into your noob killer gate camps without having the chane to evade you anyway. Me just thinking... As it is now not only noobs and fools jump into that camps. Timing is not so hard for experinced player and after 1-2 hours of training in high-secs u will do this moves almost automaticly... And i saw several times Raven coming through camps it's hard even to lock them after decloak... If ppl will go around then it's good, it will be more challenge to find a route. I'm not lowsec camper (i camped in past but not now) i don't care about lowsec gatecamps, but i do care about balance. Maneuver skills rule... I use them quite often. But usually i fly through gatecamps in Interceptor, Covert Op or Blockade Runner, my favourite is interceptor it's faster (cloak ships based on maneuvers and interceptors are based on fast coming through) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 14:53:00 - [8] Edited by: Trimutius III on 14/04/2009 14:53:41 Originally by: maralt A sensor boosted interceptor tackling a BS not using the manouver would have no problem so stop trying to spin one totally seperate issue into another. Did u tried that? There is interesting message "Target os invulnerable" Before cloaking, shortly after decloaking and after warpout starts... So Usually u can't lock that ship at all because of targets invelnerability whole 10 seconds that MWD works... Maybe CCP should do something with target invulnerabilty that still work shortly after decloaking... But i don't think so... It works as intended (and grants that covert ops for example can easily cloak just after decloaking from afterjump cloak, it's impossible to prevent that cloaking with locking covert ops (u can try if u want it's really impossible)) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 16:18:00 - [9] Edited by: Trimutius III on 14/04/2009 16:18:44 Originally by: maralt Originally by: maralt A sensor boosted interceptor tackling a BS not using the manouver would have no problem, so stop trying to spin one totally seperate issue into another. Did u read that?...il highlight the bit you missed or ignored. Oops... Sorry... Too often i miss that small word "not"... Yes i see... Agility is now good enough for ceptor too catch a BS That not using maneuver even before agility changes... But what i was saying is that this agility changes make no sense as far as it is impossible to catch MWD+Cloak BS. This possibility just negates all the agility changes... I said this somewhere above and repeat one more time... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.14 21:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Hmm, warp scramblers instantly shut down microwarpdrives since QR. Makes me wonder why this effect cant be applied to cloaks Yes, cov ops cloaks too, I'm using the MWD-cloak-2km/s-while-cloaked sometimes on my rapier, its borderline exploit tho imo. Just want to clarify that as i see it. If cloak diactivates MWD. Maybe even AB. It would be quite good. Just running for 1 cycle while cloaked seems like exploit... it should be 0 cycles... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.15 10:04:00 - [11] Edited by: Trimutius III on 15/04/2009 10:07:26 Originally by: Mr Ignitious If someone wishes to use this tactic it is likely because their intention is to do something less pewpew based, once they get to their destination they'll likely take it off for the sole reason of better locking time. I agree. Maybe it so. But still this is a problem. Just ya know one thing is if u just gatecamping and waiting for pray and totally another if this BS will help ur enemies 2 jumps away with their dark intentions to ruin ur plans. Sometimes missing that BSes may play a key role in "who is the winner today?" Ships with Cloak are still able to dock and refit. And they may carry additional fitting just in cargo if their is some problems with fitting cloak. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.17 00:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Trimutius III on 17/04/2009 00:51:42 Originally by: Raimo And tbh if you wanna stay near invulnerable to gate camps in low sec switch to interceptors or cloaky ships, they are great fun anyway... T2 frigs isn't good enough against camp with Smartbomb BS (8 smartbombs gives really big damage) but Recons and Blockade Runners are tougher. If I fly in ceptors i'm just using directscanner to know if there is BS on a gate... (though 8 smartbomb BS are rare they do exist, i remember even KM of such a BS with factinal smarts) But this isn't about agility. Making distance or fast warp out isn't hard for specialized ships. But tbh I was a little surprised after agility boost in QR. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.20 20:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Roemy Schneider RIP assault frigs Not so fast... Every useless ship gets a boost after some time. As I see it. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.22 21:32:00 - [14] Edited by: Trimutius III on 22/04/2009 21:34:51 Originally by: Raimo Edited by: Raimo on 22/04/2009 17:44:02 Originally by: Lilith Velkor About the discussion as a whole, maybe it would be best if devs checked the characters posting and ignore all the people that dont have at least 500 solo kills under their belts. Oh dear. You doing that silly move, of course I had to check your latest solokills then (1st 2-3 pages on evekill), amidst all the gang/ camp kills there were indeed some solo kills mostly in a vaga (pods that just you caught don't count), amidst the retrievers and cargo expanded frigs I saw one combat fitted ship as of late, whoop de doo you can catch and kill a T1 fit Cane in a Vaga... The skill! The courage! Stay on topic please, tbh. I'll try to do it as well. Lol... i'll be surprised if at least 10% of all killmails is posted on eve-kill, i'll be really surprised. As i know it head to head PVP is quite rare, many of solo-kills are just killing newbie that will not escape anyway because they don't have enough experience to escape and this doesn't depend on any agility changes. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.25 10:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Trimutius III on 25/04/2009 10:28:59 Originally by: Lilith Velkor Also, quite often we're just holding targets so people you have informed about a possible fight dont make their way in vain and get on a killmail, regardless if you'd have killed him solo. Ths situation doesn't count because if somebody holding and another person dealing damage it's already NOT a solo-kill. Quote: The point however is, agility is crucial to gameplay in more aspects than just the gate tackle, current values work fine in combat situations, and decreasing them would be very harmful to every ship class sub-BS. I don't think so. Before nano-nerf in QR agility of many ships was slightly lower and CCP just bringing back same agility. And before QR everything wasn't so bad. And also i'm not quite sure that agility is really nerfed for all ships, smaller ships still have quite big agility. U know if somebody will lock my crusader before i warpout i may not dye because i'm could be faraway from him (more then 24 km) Quote: We'll never be able to fully eliminate lag, but as I almost always get the picture of my target up when tackling cruiser vs cruiser at gate and only fail to have my mods activated, eliminating maybe one second lag in total would solve all problems (at least for my ping times). It's not only ping problem as i see it it always needed some time after lock before u can activate modules, no matter what. But it's just my opinion based on some experience of me and my friends. Quote: Just decreasing agility would have a very small effect on those primarily suffering from lag issues anyway (e.g. US guys, which make up a decent part of eve population), as it builds up in the current multi-staged process. That decreasing agility to a point where even the very laggy connected players can reliably get a tackle is not an option should be clear as there will always someone with a bit too much lag, but we cant leave these guys out when thinking about a solution. I think this changes aren't based on people with lags. Some problems had even people without with really good ping. I have quite a good ping and still suffer from that stupid not balanced agility. Quote: Taking the above into acount it is quite obvious that the preferred solution would be a rework of the locking + module activation process, as I said its not much that needs to be achieved, if they manage to squeeze out only .5 - 1 sec in total it would already suffice. I should agree this is good idea. As i thought preactivated modules should be also preactivated on a server, and then server will activate them on target after locking no matter is client experiencing lags or not. Quote: Think about introducing a stage in the warp process where you gain invulnerability to target locks and damage, but remain on-grid for a short while while timestamps of tacklers get evaluated if they had you properly locked before you could warp, and if its the case abort warp, resync all the involved clients and issue is gone for even the most laggy connections. As i see it CCP will not introduce such changes. They trying to solve this problems by reducing lags, reducing quantity of bits sent from a client to server and so on. Just such changes maybe unfair for people that have no lags u know. And another thing it's hard to really know if their is lags or not. Of course server could ping clients, but this is a bad idea somebody can hack client and get an unfair advantage lowering it's ping and tackling target anyway. To many exploits may be available with such changes (even maybe exploits that aren't connected to hacking) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.26 10:54:00 - [16] Edited by: Trimutius III on 26/04/2009 10:56:43 Originally by: Lilith Velkor It just wasnt so bad because the top speed you could achieve was way higher, the difference from your speed to theirs much bigger. As this is no longer the case the agility boost was much needed, reverting that would be a huge mistake. Now, there have been some oddities I dont quite understand, namely the caracal and his insane agility for what it needs, I find it disturbing that it is way more agile than the thorax for example if you take their roles into account. Buffing scan resolution on the other hand has way less potential to be harmful to the gameplay, as long as its done in a moderate way. U were talking about lags and now this? They aren't reverting agility changes they reverting them only for bigger ships, and u know the higher speed never saved BS if people wanted to catch him. Friend or agility may save him but not speed. Quote: 1vs1 It's rare and usually strength is not equal. Quote: Well, that actually is a ping problem, as the lower you ping time is the faster your modules will activate. The communication delay between client and server introduces waiting, and there are too many little delays that build up to a large amount. I said that it's not ONLY a ping problem, but of course their is some ping problems too. But even with a best ping u get a delay about 0.5-1 seconds.But of course there is 3 delays, so total delay is 1.5-3 seconds. Quote: I have pretty good ping as well I'd say, still the main problems I'm experiencing are targets not showing on my overview without significant delay, delay after target is locked and the option to activate modules becomes available, and finally delay for the mods to have effect. I played EVE for almost 2 years and now i think that this delays a programmed. Quote: Yes, I think the problem lies with the way preactivated modules are handled. I guess it is working this way to give people a chance to turn them off again if they made a mistake while locking something and not get concorded so easy. No, for this reason u have a message that says that this is illegal. (module will not activate until u click "yes" or will not activate at all if u click "no". Quote: If they are preactivated on server, you might run into a situation where you have a module preactive, are in the process of locking and deactivate it but lag strikes and the server turns the module on resulting in your ship getting blown up by concord. Message should be in highsecs, if u turned off that message it's ur problem. U always can reset it when needed (and it would be shown again) Quote: Why would that be unfair? If you have less lag than another player, you already have an unfair advantage over him, how is taking that away unfair? Its not like they did something to deserve their good connection, they just live in a special part of the world. If anything, the timestamp idea would be the most fair thing to do for everyone, as connection speed is effectively eliminated, so its just down to individual reaction time. And I'm pretty sure there would be enough ways to prevent people from messing with their clients, if there still are exploits read the logs and swing the banstick. Why unfair? Just think those who have good ping should react fast to tackle a target, and those who have bad ping could don't need fast reaction with the same result especially if u using Teamspeak for example, team may just say to someone with a bad ping that target is going to appear. It's unfair. Of course there is some methods to prevent and so on. But still banstick is good, but have one bad point for CCP. Bans are reducing money that CCP could get from people. So it's obvious that it's better not to create exploits then fight the consequences. And should i say that if they don't use banstick to exploit users they will lose even more money. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.26 20:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Actually if you read the OP, the plan seems to be to NOT revert them on bigger ships but just on the intermediate sized / small ships, these however need agility the most to be viable. Apart from that, good agility and acceleration saved a lot of BS pilots already, as the initial boost is what decides if they can make it back to gate or not in an organized camp most of the time. What I'm saying is increasing scan resolution is the better way to decrease lock times without having the negative effect on combat performance on 3/4 of the ships in game. As i said BS could be saved by agility (that directly connected to acceleration) or by friends (this always work if ur tank is good enough) Quote: Yea, thats why I'm saying balancing such a situation on 1vs1 stats would be a bad idea for a game that almost never has these. The idea is that their could be many pilots on a scene but tackling is usually 1vs1 thing, closest tackler catch u and his friends made a wreck out of ur ship. U succeded to escape then u win. Quote: I'm pretty sure they arent intentionally programmed. If they are, which I doubt, just take it out and solve the problem that way. Yes they aren't programmed of course. I just got used to them. Quote: No its not, as it makes no difference for someone to tell you what is going to happen, all that would matter is your own reaction after something shows up on your overview, it doesnt matter at all if your mates see it earlier. I see ur idea. But when CCP made EVE they made client so that there almost no calculations on a client so that any hacking isn't possible without hacking server, and hacking server is easy to find out and punish. Hacking clients isn't so easy to find out. So some people will hack timestamp (several hundred thousand of subscribers, somebody will do that). And how CCP should investigate that and how server would know if timestamp is made by client or by a program... And even without hacking. somebody can make a targeting bot that will lock almost instantly. And timestamp would be small even without directly hacking client. CCP should not give a new toy to botmakers. IMHO I think timestamp isn't good solving of problem. I think some changes should be serverside. So that server would almost automaticly activate some modules. Delay after decloaking and before u can see target could have even backstory, for example sensor can not lock on target until it fully decloaked. Not activating modules imidiatly could have backstory too. But difference because of lags should be somehow resolved. But sometimes it's a problem. Some people could have ping of 1-2 seconds sometimes, especially when new ship appears. And during fleet battles ping could be even minutes, this timestamps will just create slowdown everyone who has no lags, and when lags are terrible it could be really hanging. And if we get to system with many people in local. For example someone is hanging on a gate and have with lags and everyone else is just waiting until timestamp from him get server and it will slow down warpout of everyone and could be exploited (to slowdown reinforsments for example) it could be even an alt in a rookie ship... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.26 23:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Lilith Velkor No client waits for other clients, the server does the evaluation and informs his clients. If you did get a successful tackle due to timestamp evaluation, your client just gets resynced, you'd see the hostile ship reappear on grid And dies in lags in many cases (loading of ships is laggy atm) And targeting bot is still possible (atm without timestamps such a bot isn't effective)... And that possiblity should be eleminated BEFORE implemetation. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.27 23:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Lilith Velkor No, the ships would already been loaded as you have just left the grid (in most cases we're talking about less than a second anyway, so you'd not even have left the grid). If the grid is severely lagged you are more likely to die before you initially loaded it than after it has been loaded and you tried your warpout. Me wrong, i didn't thought that ships may be stored in memory until all timestamps are checked. Quote: Quote: And targeting bot is still possible (atm without timestamps such a bot isn't effective)... And that possiblity should be eleminated BEFORE implemetation. I dont see what people would want with a targeting bot anyway, even if you'd code such a bot its reactions would be worse than a player just spamming locks on overview before a target appears. There is nothing you could possibly gain by using a bot there, and bots would be ridiculously easy to spot when using a timestamp approach (unless you introduce random delays, but at this point you'll be much less effective than a player). Randomizer isn't that hard to create. for example random time between from 0.05 to 0.2 seconds. Normal reaction of a man is 0.1 seconds (if u are lucky then maybe faster) And bot will react almost imidiatly (even faster then spamming, because u can't spam even at least 10 clicks per second, but if u have good reaction u can click after 0.1 second after target appears in overview). So targeting bot will just simulate the best possible reaction. Some people may come to same result after monthes of training, but bot doesn't need any training. So it's still a new possiblity for botmakers, i don't know how hard is making such a bot, but i think it's possible (it shouldn't be much harder then creating mining bots that should be banned as i think but somewhy they still exist as i know) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.28 11:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Still, might be possible depending on how you do it, but I cant see the possible gain there, as the reaction time of a player would be sufficient anyways. First of all i will not do it. I have a good reaction (practicing and so on), and i think that all bots should be banned forever. Or their should be legal ingame macroses for all (some easy macroses like making 2 actions at the same time, for activating tanking for example) Reaction time of a player surely may be sufficient... But not a lazy player that will pay some bucks for not doing dirty work. Of course such a player who buys bots deserve bans, but still CCP should not give possibility for new bots, exploits and related things. Bans is good, but not giving players reasons to be banned even better. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Mohenna I'm the guy who first spoke about the timestamp idea. Macros wouldn't be an issue; in eve the only macros that have a long life are the basic ones, "envelop the client", that suffer of as long a lag as a human user. "Substitute the client" macros (invisible walls in CS if I'm right, for example) are defeated by the fast patching rhythm. I talked about macros because i was talking about bots. It's not directly connected to timestamps. Quote: The problem that I see with my own idea is that you would defeat lag in only a single instance. This sounds... Wrong. If you had timestamping technologies that defeat lag here, why not implementing them everywhere? Not everywhere it's possible, because lags can have different effect on different actions. But single instance better then none, the only question does it worth it? Quote: The second problem is technical. I've been thinking about it a little bit, and I don't think there actually is a deadlock free solution in a multiuser environment, to develop "back-in-time" events like the timestamp one I spoke about. Think about it. One client (pirate) sends the tackle (and thus, weapons), another client (fugitive) sends escape. Two clients, stuff works. Here come client 3 (uh, anti-pirate) who sends a tackle+weapons timestamp to the server. Turns out he's badly lagged. The server first calculates the tackle; the fugitive warps away, then is rubber-banded back to the gate because the pirate tackled him. Then the anti-pirate timestamp gets worked, and suppose the pirate is alpha-ed. The fugitive is rabberbanded again to where he was going, lol. Nope i don't think that calculating is that hard warping is takes about 5 seconds even if u warp only 150km if timestamp didn't come so fast then sorry you're TOO laggy and u lose anyway. But complecsity may be very intersting. Ur example isn't right. If somebody scrambled target and imidiatly after that was poped target still have to click warp button again. It could be solved just this way, but it's not always fair. And still Quote: Now imagine that the fugitive's destination was a nearby station where another tackler tried to tackle him. Another combat happened there. You quickly make complexity raise beyond manageable levels. This thing would be a total rework of eve.... Not something that we could see happening, I'm afraid. Imagine fleet battle and thousands of timestamps sent during short amount of time... Server may just die... =) Quote: I wonder how they solved the issue (IF they did) in JG where stuff is supposed to happen quiclkly (you friggin use a joystick...) Such a games are based on totally another mechanics. In such games most of calculations are made on ur computer and it's just sycnronizing with server as fast as it can. EVE is different. Most of the calculations are made on the server, and client is only sending commands and recieveing coordinates. This aproach gives some advantages like low traffic and hardly possible hacking (u have to hack server anyway, and that could be easily detected), but u see many lags, which are disguised in another approach when ur PC calculates itself, but in such games there are lags, they just cause different effects. But I doubt that CCP will change mechanics to oposite. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.04 18:30:00 - [22] Originally by: General Coochie Edited by: General Coochie on 04/05/2009 15:49:24 Long thread. Is the agility change affecting both T1 and T2 hulls? (I already read about AFs) Im thinking HACs and inties. BTW this do make soloing harder. Much easier to get caught in a blob on a gate or similar. Whats making solo PvP hard is NOT targets warping of to fast. Somewhere in the middle modifiers for t2 hulls was written. They have different modifiers but still new... I'm to lazy to search where it was... look for CCP posts in the middle of this thread. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:17:00 - [23] Edited by: Trimutius III on 07/05/2009 22:19:11 Originally by: SecHaul It appears per my forum reading that in the latest build of SISI that the MWD / Cloak / Warp trick has been fixed. Cloaking now instantly deactivates the MWD (Warp Scram type effect) making it impossible to reach the required 75% speed to insta-warp. Oh noes, solo PvP will die! I haven't seen any formal feedback on this change, but I'm hoping that the new SISI build is a good sign of the change to come. Looks like will see AB on cloaking ships? Need to check if AB diactivated by cloak or not... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.09 21:01:00 - [24] I'll repeat this in this thread too: Maybe turning off of MWD should be replaced by: Afterburner and Microwarpdrive Max Velocity Bonus -90 % Afterburner and Microwarpdrive Thrust Bonus Afterburner and Microwarpdrive Thrust Bonus -80 % Or even 100%... Penalty like Warp Disruption Field Generator have... Or maybe different cloak should have different penalties... Cov Ops Cloak almost no penalty and Prototype have big penalty... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.19 19:13:00 - [25] Originally by: spazoxlabanias dont you think that the nerf in agility was TOO MUCH??? i mean a ceptor now is less agile than a normal fitted vaga before! Hm how many agility modes have u fitted on Vaga? Or maybe u compared interceptor with MWD vs. Vaga without MWD. (turning on MWD reduces agility) I'm pretty satisfied with agility of my Malediction... My Malediction is almost same as it was before Nanonerf... So i don't care. Quote: why everytime you want to nerf something you just damp it to hell? Do u have some numbers??? It's hard to understand what do u mean without numbers (seconds for ceptor, seconds for vaga, which fit do u use and so on) Quote: and please change this "need for speed" name (probably "dont need speed")... it has become a joke.. i suggest you make ships like structures that will just warp once in an hour. Well done, game is more 'balanced' now indeed! Hmm... "Need of speed" is about reducing lags... It's not related to ships' speed anyway... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius

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